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Your Friends From The Internet #12: #MintyFresh

This Week’s Major Skews:

Sweet Potatoes RULE!
This New “Facebook” Thing


  • Graz, the pain you see on twitter isn't necessarily your pain too so you don't have to try to feel it in the same way. It doesn't help them and it doesn't help you. "Being aware of what's happening in the world" feels like a flimsy defense for hurting yourself in this way. Obviously "read less twitter" is not an acceptable thing for you so as a non-white person I'll just tell you this: you have my blessing to feel a little more detached from what you're reading. Obviously I'm sure that's not easy for you either but you're allowed to try.
  • The_Burger_Purist has logged on
  • I feel like we've had the conversation about Woke burnout before.
  • The distinction reached on this YFI that it's violence in self-defense is that crucial nuance even I had trouble grasping -- as a pacifist like Minty Fresh -- temporarily quitting Twitter over the constant stream of people advocating for violence. Not that they're wrong, or would be if it were violence beyond self-defense, but it just felt like this fear of disagreeing with your in-group. Because, honestly, I don't see those people actually picking up guns and killing Nazis, but that's the rhetoric I felt I was inundated with (given some space now, I can't remember), mixed in with: you must do something or history will judge you. And the problem I had was that that's true, too, but as an American, my instincts are not action or advocacy or anything like that. So it's taken some time. As a base, I've been donating monthly to PP and SPLC since November, but that's just guilt -- the driving feeling of 'when will I reach that threshold where I've done enough and don't feel guilty anymore?' Being a twinkie, that's straight-up white guilt, which I see Graziella is also afflicted with. I have theories about inching closer to that threshold, knowing it can't be reached and that one shouldn't believe they've ever crossed it, but I think Graz was also talking about how, at the very least, one doesn't need to be intervening on other action/advocacy/anything theories and conversations and shutting them down just because they make you feel guilty.
  • I do plan to reply, I want to listen to the actual episode first so that I have the full context.
  • Still listening to the episode, but I feel you Joel on that social anxiety. I'm living pretty far west compared to a lot of my friends so there's this extra bit of effort I have to get past to do anything social with friends, to say nothing of dating. Talking through social media definitely helps cause it gives me time to think about what I'm saying whereas if I was on the phone I'd probably be a blabbering idiot
  • I'm listening through this, and I haven't got all the way yet, but hooray, I'm glad my food question turned into some good discussion :) Although I wasn't really expecting my silly thing about beets to turn into Dave's Psychology Deep Dive. (And you're right, I should have probably specified "except potatoes" given that this podcasting crew is basically Potato Lyfe)

    Evan: Pizza My Heart is pretty good, and so is A Slice Of New York. Emperor Norton's in San Jose is fun, although not quite the kind of thin-bread crust you'd probably consider proper. Those are all South Bay kind of places, though.

    For me, it's cheesesteak. You cannot get good cheesesteaks out here; nobody has Amoroso rolls, except for a few places that treat them as imported foreign delicacies (and charge accordingly). I get them when I go back home to visit, but for now I just don't have them; places out here either try to put lettuce and mayo on them, or they put a flank steak on a kaiser roll (which is one of those wonderful things that is technically correct but also 100% wrong.)
  • As another Bay Area adjacent Californian I'll second the recommendation for Pizza My Heart. I'm sure it wouldn't pass muster with the New York Pizza Elite but it seems pretty solid to me.

    If you're looking for more D&D Cooking comics, "Rutabaga, Adventure Chef" is a lot of fun. It also has recipes you could almost make if you could get a hold of some dragon eggs or enchanted fungus.
  • edited October 2017

    The distinction reached on this YFI that it's violence in self-defense is that crucial nuance even I had trouble grasping...

    I think that's because it's the distinction used by the right wing in every single discussion about violence of any sort; the idea that "violence in self-defense is morally acceptable".

    And this distinction has been discredited, denied, debunked; shown to be ethically and intellectually ill-supported; declared to be merely a cover for gun-fetish bigotry; described as an obvious sign that the person you're talking to isn't worth talking to.

    But if you take it out, all you're left with is wordy restatements of "It's Me Doing It This Time".

    The thing to remember here is that it's not the right wing which has been saying all along that violence was bad, that self-defense couldn't be an excuse. You say "a display of one's willingness to employ violence can serve as a deterrent to future attacks", and the right wing says "we agree, we've been saying that all along". You say "it can be moral, in some situations, to use violent means to pre-empt someone's harmful behavior" and the right wing says "we agree, we've been saying that all along".

    But the arguments we hear when the right-wing says that aren't "but in this situation violence was inappropriate because..." We hear "it's always wrong to think like that". We hear "saying that violence can be a deterrent is just looking for an excuse to use violence". We hear "saying that violence can preempt further harm is just a cover for racist prejudice". We don't hear "your ideas are right but this time you're applying them wrong", we hear "your ideas are inherently wrong". People have spent quite a lot of intellectual and philosophical effort telling us how we're wrong, and they've bound up significant parts of their identities in the notion that Violence Is Wrong is a first principle.

    And this causes a lot of tension when you combine it with the modern liberal tradition of reasoning via contagion--that is, "you're saying things that sound like the things said by those guys who we all agree are bad, HASH TAG PROBLEMAAAAATIIIIIIC".


    Dave, I see where you're going with "property damage isn't on the same level as violence against persons" but the idea that property damage is a form of violent assault goes back to Kristallnacht, if not further.
  • property damage is a form of violent assault goes back to Kristallnacht, if not further.

    This is not a necessary correction for a statement you've taken out of context. I don't think what Dave was talking about even resembled Kristallnacht, not to mention the scale of it.
  • An article relevant to the discussion:
    [Courtney] Caldwell, an active member of the Denton, Texas chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America, doesn’t quite fit the profile of the average gun owner [who is] white, male, high-income, and over the age of 55, according to a 2015 Columbia University study published in the journal Injury Prevention. For her, gun ownership is a fundamental part of her leftist identity. “Guns are a necessary form of self-defense so long as there is an oppressive, racist state that exists to uphold white supremacy,” Caldwell said. This doesn’t just mean self-defense in the traditional sense — defending one’s body from harm — but also the collective defense of marginalized communities.
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