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    Why do you hate America, Rhegs?
  • Summary please?
  • God said:


    That summarizes it pretty well I suppose. I needed to know more after reading that and I wish I didn't.

  • Oh that. I still don't really understand unless it's just so crazy that I'm not meant to.
  • What I gleaned from reading parts of it is that since the Civil War, the United States has been taken over by a corporation of fakers. They proceeded to take us off of the gold standard without Americans knowing it, cause the Great Depression, and set up a United States Corporation of America.

    Their website is pure libertarianism distilled to the core. They want America to stop being so damn Communist Socialists, bring back the rights of the states, and go back to Jesus as we are a Christian nation. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!1111
  • I'll leave it up to the discretion of my government to decide if they want to deal with him, but until then I don't believe he deserves my sympathy for breaking the law.



    Well, if you have an unjust law that basically illustrates the fact that legislation is completely out of sync with the state of reality, isn't pointing out the elephant in the room the first step to acceptance? The state of immigration legislation is based on compromises relating to political football and polling, not what constitutes good policy. Take DADT, for instance. It was enacted as a compromise between open acceptance and not allowing gays in the military. The absurd part was that gays are already part of the military, and the law simply lets everyone pretend that isn't the case.

    No one wants to talk about fixing the problem of illegal immigration because the solutions that make the most sense would be politically unpopular. So the current state of affairs is that no one talks about the elephant in the room. Individuals that stand up to stupid laws and accept potential personal repercussions absolutely get my respect. How many military service members publicly came out, knowing they'd be discharged had everything to lose, and nothing to gain but the hope that things might change for the better? There is merit in trying to show people how ludicrous and unfair the status quo that no one talks about really is. The way I see it, publicly saying you are an illegal immigrant serves the same purpose.

    Someone who lives his/her life in a polite lie that most people would rather ignore than face gets my sympathy. Someone who tries to expose that lie at great personal cost earns my respect.
  • I came across this completely by accident: video. It started playing after a Patton Oswald v. Cell-Phone-Talkers video I found. It seemed appropriate to at least part of this discussion and to the current presidential election especially where it deals with 'intellectual distortion.'
  • Re: the rape article:

    The whole threshing machine analogy was piss poor. I love an analogy that paints all men as latent rapists. Pretty great. But mostly, this "rape culture" thing has to stop or I'm going to go completely insane. I now make at least six jokes a week--usually non sequiturs--about "promoting rape culture." My girlfriend is even making them! I need time away from the phrase "rape culture." It is absurdity approaching infinity.

    One point of the article that's good, though, is the idea that yes, you can say whatever you want, and yes, people can react however they want. So talk, and react, and stop arguing about whether people are entitled to shit. The entitlement angle is pointless and stupid and infuriating.

  • Someone who tries to expose that lie at great personal cost earns my respect.


    I can agree with that. Have there been proposed alternatives?

    I hated the thresher machine analogy because I'm not dumb. How the fuck am I supposed to understand that better than something I can actually relate to?
  • "Rape culture" may come across as a kludgy buzz word, but the idea it represents is completely relevant. There are entire TV shows dedicated, basically exclusively, to female rape (Law and Order SVU), people on the internet use 'rape' to describe any minor inconvenience, you're told from a very young age to NEVER GO OUT ANYWHERE OR YOU WILL BE RAPED, and media dictates, time and again, that the most effective way to give women character development in stories, regardless of genre, is to rape them.

    And then someone on the internet says "ah, shut up about rape culture, that's a really dumb phrase."

    If that happened to me, I imagine I'd feel pretty shitty too.
  • I've only recently begun to fully appreciate how much shit I will never have to deal with being a caucasion male. I am at a loss for words to articulate how infuriating this Tosh thing is, especially given that it's just a contemporary example of a problem that stretches through most of human history. Odd that this happens while I've been reading From Hell, which is at least in part a meditation on the history of the oppression of women in society.
  • Rape is a crime. Rape is punished by jail sentences. Rape can get you on sex offender lists. Rape convictions will keep you out of jobs and away from large swaths of the population. A convicted rapist is saddled with an incredible degree of opprobrium, and in most cases rightly so (I've got my own stance on some particular issues, but those'd be rather lengthy discussions that I'm probably not even capable of articulating clearly today--suffice to say, we've got problems aplenty in the criminal justice system, and rape cases are no exception). When someone is described as "rapey," is that a positive epithet? Do you want to snuggle up to this individual in a dim bar and listen to him talk damply about his childhood? No. I am flummoxed by the assertion that people don't really give a fuck that rape happens, or that people don't believe that convicted rapists are, barring very special exceptions, truly awful folks/folks who have committed a truly awful act (pick your phrasing). People on the internet using "rape" in a metaphorical way is like anyone anywhere using any substantive concept like that flippantly. I don't know that I'm prepared to issue a blanket statement that such matters must be considered only in the gravest of manners and that any diminution of their seriousness is a moral infraction.

    I wonder about the media saturation re: rape as character development. Clearly, the Japanese media we've all encountered on both sides of this podcast demonstrate a wealth of problems in that area. Western media might be better, but I don't honestly know; still, the existence of SVU and other such things militates against a strong defense of the media as balanced purveyors of ideas. That's probably the single strongest part of the whole argument.
  • You know who were good at promoting the rape culture? Nazis.........
    Just sayin'
  • I wonder about the media saturation re: rape as character development. Clearly, the Japanese media we've all encountered on both sides of this podcast demonstrate a wealth of problems in that area. Western media might be better, but I don't honestly know;



    I'm sure there's a TVTropes page on this I can't be bothered to search for at the moment. SVU is certainly more balanced than a lot of portrayals. Comic books, as ever, are a pretty bad offender. Black Canary in the super grimdark Green Arrow of the 90s and Kevin Smith recently adding rape to Black Cat's origin story are maybe two of the most high profile examples. Male characters are motivated by witnessing injustice perpetrated against others, and disproportionately, female characters are motivated by past victimization against themselves.
  • Yeah but... rape really isn't punished all that often. People don't give a fuck. That's kind of the point. Recently quoted statistics are like 46% of rapes are reported, 12% go to trial, and 3% are convicted. Maybe the figures aren't that dire, but that's a pretty good argument for "no one cares about your issues" regardless of the fact that we all soundly dismiss this theoretical caricature of a rapist we've never met as a vile scumbag. I just read a story last night about a cop who raped a school teacher, at gun point, while drunk, in broad daylight, in front of two witnesses, and was convinced of only "sexual assault" because 1) the victim could not recall the color of a nearby car and 2) rape in NY requires vaginal penetration and this guy probably only raped her ass. I mean, christ, Roman Polanski raped a 13 year old girl and fled the country and now, years later, there's a groundswell of Hollywood support for him saying "leave Roman Polanski alone!" because he made a couple good movies.

    THAT'S what people mean by "rape culture" they mean "sure you sodomized a thirteen year old girl, but hey, you made The Pianist, so we cool."

    The issue in these situations, like the one with Tosh, is usually the side saying "shut up, respect my right to say offensive, hurtful things!" ignores that it is ALSO freedom of speech to say "hey, saying offensive hurtful things makes you look like a real shitbag" and furthermore, the people on the other side are often simply saying "say whatever offensive hurtful stuff you want, just don't act like a whiny entitled asshole when someone says 'i don't like that.'"
  • This often comes to mind when I hear the phrase "rape culture".

    Rapists Admit Repeated Crimes — As Long As You Don’t Call It “Rape”
    The study had two important implications. One is that rapists aren't really all that secretive about their activities — as long as you don't come right out and call it "rape." The other is that one common assumption about date rape or "gray rape" — that it's usually the result of miscommunication and happens when good guys get the wrong idea — appears to be wrong. As Hess says, we hear a lot about "the acquaintance who 'misreads' the situation and 'goes too far'" and "the longtime friend who genuinely thought you had consented, and is shocked when you tell him that, no, it was rape."
  • I suppose I should look into the hows and whys of the reason rape cases don't go to trial. What I do know is that in rape and DV cases, you often have a witness who doesn't want to go forward with prosecution, and without her testimony the prosecution simply has no case. As for the reporting, I've got nothing to offer there. And as for things going to trial, period, 90% of cases don't go to trial. Plead 'em and bleed 'em is the rule. Dismiss for costs, plead to a lower offense, plead to the charged offense just to "get it over with," words I've heard a hundred million times now. The story about the cop raping a gal is terrible, one of those cases you don't want to believe happens. But those cases do happen, and they speak to a series of major flaws in our criminal justice system.

    The Polanski thing is weird and something I chalk up to the celebrity effect. It's unnerving to see that, regardless of how it's characterized (rape culture promotion or otherwise). There's no defending it.

    Your final paragraph is something I've never argued. I agree entirely that, when people say "BUT I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT," they're usually failing to apply the rule uniformly. One must "take his lumps."
  • Another aspect of rape culture is victim blaming. For example, there are some people who will justify rape by pointing to what the victim was wearing or how the victim acting or how even the victim's sexual history. Some people feel that they are entitled to sex if the target of their desire behaves in any way that arouses them. There are cases in which some people try to justify statutory rape by saying, "well, she dressed / acted older / sluttier than someone of that age should act" - essentially, "she was asking for it". We have all heard examples of this coming out of the mouths of both men and women.
  • For what it's worth, this sort of argument can be made on non-rape fronts. The logic underpinning the problems we see in our society isn't exclusive to (or disproportionately associated with) rape.
  • I don't know if your second sentence is true.

    Regardless, you are saying it from a position of privilege. As in, you have the privilege of being a male in our society, and you are not part of the half of our society that faces a 1 out of 5 chance of being raped at some point in your life.
  • And if I recognize my statistical status, does that diminish or enhance my words? I dislike that line of thought, though I understand it. "You can't understand because you're not X." I get it. Identity confers its burdens unevenly, and no, despite any privations attendant with my status in our society, I am not a likely victim of rape, nor am I, for example, a racial or ethnic minority, a non-citizen, a cripple, etc. And in some respect, no, I can't understand that yoke's weight, its contours, but I sincerely hope that in my own measured, empathetic way, I can and have approximated it sufficiently to discuss the issue without my words being mere stillbirth, dead for want of perspective. I have not said nor will I say that rape is itself not a problem. Of course it is. And insofar as we have structural deficiencies in our society, we have a duty to inspect and, where possible, remedy them. I just don't see rape as being wildly out of line with any other part of our society.
  • IMHO, I think a status of privilege undermines one's opinions, but it does not as strongly undermine one's analyses. Your last sentence is not an argument, it's just an opinion.

    For what it's worth, this sort of argument can be made on non-rape fronts. The logic underpinning the problems we see in our society isn't exclusive to (or disproportionately associated with) rape.



    I'm going to have to go with xenomouse on this second sentence in that the structural deficiencies in our society both in inspecting and remedying this particular crime are inadequate. The disproportionate level of victim-blaming and under-reporting that goes on is a pretty big indicator of this.
  • The argument was more in my above post than in that last one, so yeah, I'm being much more conclusory there.
  • I just don't see rape as being wildly out of line with any other part of our society.

    Here's the thing - it isn't, and that fact is indicative of deeper and more pervasive cultural issues. That's exactly the notion that the term "rape culture" is meant to elicit.
  • I should have said "the rape situation," as opposed to "I don't see people raping other people as abnormal," which is I guess how that could read. Sorry.
  • Want to read what McCain thought about Romney in 2008? Well here you go. http://www.scribd.com/doc/78582788/McCain-2008-Oppo-File
  • Thank you. This document is excellent. I want one of these for every candidate who ever runs for any office.

    "Gun Owners Of America’s Erich Pratt: Romney’s Assault Weapons Ban Was “Draconian.”
    “[Romney]signed a draconian ban on common, household firearms that are owned by millions of americans across the nation.”"

    Evidence of mindset: assault weapons are "common, household firearms."
  • I actually saw a book at my local library today all about Oppo politics, by two people who made a career of it. Dirty business, but worthwhile as a way of getting shit out to the public like this, I think.
  • The Assault Weapons Ban's definition of "assault weapon"' included such terribly dangerous items as guns that could hold more than two bullets, guns that had pistol grips, and guns that were similar to other guns.
  • You see, I hear things like that, and I stop and think to myself, "What kind of fucking reality am I living in that some ostensibly intelligent human being in a position of power would actually write such a thing with those kinds of parameters?"
  • I dunno, man. I'm no gun expert, but it seems like a shotgun with a pistol grip would be designed specifically for close quarters, urban combat. I could see why legislators might be concerned about that; I'm fairly certain some states already have laws restricting such weapons.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not generally a supporter of gun-control laws, but I sometimes wonder what people who want to own military-grade weapons for anything other than collecting purposes are hoping to accomplish.
  • They're hoping America gets invaded by foriegners so they can go all Red Dawn on them.

  • Well that or a good-old-fashioned race war.
  • But isn't that every red blooded white American male power fantasy?

    First it was to keep out the British, then the commies and now?!
  • Well that or a good-old-fashioned race war.



  • Well played Creaty!

    Codger said:

    But isn't that every red blooded white American male power fantasy? First it was to keep out the British, then the commies and now?!



    Your buddies: the Chinese of course. I would say a reconstituted Russia, but who can take them seriously militarily outside of eastern Europe, and no more ideological contrasts. Unless you guys wanna start something. In fact, I think we still owe you for Yahoo Serious.
  • Hey, Young Einstein was a great movie!
  • Yahoo Serious isn't bad enough to erase the good that was Mad Max. So they're still in the black in my book.

    Unless New Zealand snuck that one in then never mind, I'm not looking it up.
  • This heat wave has been pretty weird as it's not really been that hot in Florida. I see today the average temperture across the state seems to be 85 or so. While the Ohio Valley Region are well into the mid 90s. I don't think most of the state has gone above 95 for any long stretch, but across the country most of the country seems to be dying.

    Hopefully this heat wave will last into the Winter.
  • GROAN



    You complain, but that fucker is sheriff of my county. And let me tell you, the fact that he's sheriff is not what really depresses me about him. It's the continual reelections of him that drives me nuts. Not counting the numerous press exposés on him, he's had several county investigations for abuse of power and misappropriation of funds (read: corruption), one or two state investigations over his procedures, and obviously the pending federal case. The cherry: our former country attorney and his deputy were recently disbarred for ethics violations related to politically motivated prosecutions of political opponents -- which were done in conjunction with, and for the protection of Arpaio.

    Yet, he will most likely be reelected this fall. Mainly because stunts like this get the old people's attention, and they no likey darkies. Oh, did I mention that Arpaio and JT Ready were buds? Man I hate that guy!
  • I'm so sorry.
  • So Mitt Romney is being "swift boated" except, you know, the accusations against him are probably true:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-boehlert/its-not-swift-boating-if-_b_1679611.html
  • The great thing about not watching tv is that I haven't seen a single political add this election season.
  • I'm not watching TV either, but I have been surprised how many political ads are showing up before youtube videos.
  • Meet my friend AdMuncher. Still haven't seen any political ads.
  • @xenomouse: How can you possibly tolerate having to watch ads before your youtube videos? 'Tis unimaginable.